I want to talk about the devil, specifically the venerated action-RPG video game series Diablo. It became a money printing machine by taking the dungeon-crawling elements of Rogue and combining it with the unrelenting pace of real-time gameplay (a total accident by the way
As you were describing Diablo, my first thought was "he'd like Vampire Survivors". And lo and behold, I didn't even have to bring it up.
Also, Vampire Survivors is like, $5 on Steam or free for mobile. Skip a coffee and get it if you want a shameless endorphin factory par excellence.
Finally, whenever Vampire Survivors comes up, someone must inevitably point out that its dev got his start programming gambling machines and decided to use his powers for good. All the lights, colors, and addictive gameplay loops, none of the devouring people's money beyond an initial payment and some fairly-priced DLCs.
I would talk extensively about my 20 years spent wasted on WoW, including chasing arena ratings and raiding in a progression guild where the game became more important to me than diet, exercise or sleep. But I try to pretend that never happened because, like a drug addict, the soft folds of denial feel much better.
I don't regret it at all. WoW, at its peak, was an extraordinary time and place that I have never seen another game replicate, and I feel fortunate to have experienced it.
I don't understand how a game can be "exactly like Diablo, except without any of the busy work." To me the repetitive click-click-click gameplay, and the slog-like nature at times, are defining features of the game, love it or hate it.
It creates the central contradiction that I think is very funny about these games: the real purpose of the game for me, like most players, is to find the loot, not because you win when you find it, but because the loot lets me upgrade my character. Why upgrade my character? So I can kill the monsters faster, i.e. play the game less because it is slightly less of a slog now. But of course I could easily play the game less. I don't need the game's permission. What am I even doing here? I honestly don't know!
The new Diablo 4 expansion is probably the closest that franchise has ever been to recapturing the feeling and gameplay of D2 LoD. The new class and gear system are much better than on launch, much like how Diablo 3's expansion made that game much better in the long run. Blizzard is never returning to its glory days, but that game right now is definitely one of the strongest things they've had on offer in many years. The biggest turn-off I see for a new player is how complex the skill tree and paragon board systems are, which essentially necessitates following a cookie-cutter build online unless you know what you're doing.
My favorite balance of these things is Final Fantasy XII. Your character has what they call "gambits" which are basically if/then statements. So you walk into a fight and your character starts executing their programmed conditional actions. You get the fun of deciding what to do, but you still don't have the busywork
I had a similar experience with the fallout games. I used to play them all the way through, all side quests, reading the terminals to understand the lore, etc.
I picked up Fall Out: New Vegas about a year ago and just couldn't do it. The grind of character leveling and weapon-finding just wasn't fun anymore. If I am going to play it needs to be full-paced from start to finish. I just don't have the patience for open world any longer.
The premise seems wrong, Diablos greatest competitor isn't vampire survivor, it's Path of Exile which goes in exactly the opposite direction. Seriously, go take a gander at its skill tree and it adds an end game system and economy that makes Diablo seem quaint. Gaming isn't so much ironing out the wrinkles as it is providing increasing choice of how wrinkly exactly you want your product.
I'm VERY well acquainted with Path of Exile and think it's superior than Diablo by almost any measure. I tried to get back into after several years break to binge on some podcasts and...good god I forgot just absolutely overwhelming all the systems are. Even plugging-and-playing a build template was too much. VS4life
second, you are an adult now and i would guess you no longer feel the same kick from 'simulated progression' because you have access to the real thing. your primary objective, as an adult, is deciding how to allocate your 16-18 hours of time per day to maximize ROI (not just financial ROI, but social and personal ROI). whereas kids cannot not buy much progression, if any, when the marginal worth of their hour is near zero
tl;dr
kids: poor in money, rich in time
working adults: 'relatively rich' in money, poor in time
caveat: the failure mode of the ROI maximization worldview is burnout
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third, there are moments in gaming, you alluded to them yourself, that can only be purchased by the sacrifice of time and effort. in ludology, the study of games, a game is only a game in so far as it has artificial costs/constraints the player chooses to bear, like a soccer player getting the ball into the net without his hands. this is one reason why vampsurv will likely never imprint on you lifelong memories the way diablo did. its design shaved away many of the transcendental qualities of play in order to create a pure dopamine delivery device, like a one button slot machine. of course, there is always the question of ROI, some grinds, no matter how immersive, are not 'worth it' in retrospect. eg, no amount of time-optimized gaming is worth a day of play with your child.
I would highly recommend Halls of Torment, in that it takes the gloriously simplified Vampire Survivors approach but just slightly recomplicates it while providing an aesthetic that feels more like Diablo in some respects than Diablo itself.
A nice thing about Diablo and similar games is that your enemies get utterly vaporized by the thousands but the beautiful vistas and atmospheric environments remain completely untouched. Minus some exploded crates and jars.
As you were describing Diablo, my first thought was "he'd like Vampire Survivors". And lo and behold, I didn't even have to bring it up.
Also, Vampire Survivors is like, $5 on Steam or free for mobile. Skip a coffee and get it if you want a shameless endorphin factory par excellence.
Finally, whenever Vampire Survivors comes up, someone must inevitably point out that its dev got his start programming gambling machines and decided to use his powers for good. All the lights, colors, and addictive gameplay loops, none of the devouring people's money beyond an initial payment and some fairly-priced DLCs.
Stardew Valley and Diablo in one week? I'll miss your law content but if you want to turn this into a gaming substack I'm down.
You have no idea how deep that pipeline goes
I would talk extensively about my 20 years spent wasted on WoW, including chasing arena ratings and raiding in a progression guild where the game became more important to me than diet, exercise or sleep. But I try to pretend that never happened because, like a drug addict, the soft folds of denial feel much better.
I don't regret it at all. WoW, at its peak, was an extraordinary time and place that I have never seen another game replicate, and I feel fortunate to have experienced it.
I don't understand how a game can be "exactly like Diablo, except without any of the busy work." To me the repetitive click-click-click gameplay, and the slog-like nature at times, are defining features of the game, love it or hate it.
It creates the central contradiction that I think is very funny about these games: the real purpose of the game for me, like most players, is to find the loot, not because you win when you find it, but because the loot lets me upgrade my character. Why upgrade my character? So I can kill the monsters faster, i.e. play the game less because it is slightly less of a slog now. But of course I could easily play the game less. I don't need the game's permission. What am I even doing here? I honestly don't know!
The new Diablo 4 expansion is probably the closest that franchise has ever been to recapturing the feeling and gameplay of D2 LoD. The new class and gear system are much better than on launch, much like how Diablo 3's expansion made that game much better in the long run. Blizzard is never returning to its glory days, but that game right now is definitely one of the strongest things they've had on offer in many years. The biggest turn-off I see for a new player is how complex the skill tree and paragon board systems are, which essentially necessitates following a cookie-cutter build online unless you know what you're doing.
My favorite balance of these things is Final Fantasy XII. Your character has what they call "gambits" which are basically if/then statements. So you walk into a fight and your character starts executing their programmed conditional actions. You get the fun of deciding what to do, but you still don't have the busywork
I had a similar experience with the fallout games. I used to play them all the way through, all side quests, reading the terminals to understand the lore, etc.
I picked up Fall Out: New Vegas about a year ago and just couldn't do it. The grind of character leveling and weapon-finding just wasn't fun anymore. If I am going to play it needs to be full-paced from start to finish. I just don't have the patience for open world any longer.
Have you heard of Progress Quest?
http://progressquest.com/play/
The premise seems wrong, Diablos greatest competitor isn't vampire survivor, it's Path of Exile which goes in exactly the opposite direction. Seriously, go take a gander at its skill tree and it adds an end game system and economy that makes Diablo seem quaint. Gaming isn't so much ironing out the wrinkles as it is providing increasing choice of how wrinkly exactly you want your product.
I'm VERY well acquainted with Path of Exile and think it's superior than Diablo by almost any measure. I tried to get back into after several years break to binge on some podcasts and...good god I forgot just absolutely overwhelming all the systems are. Even plugging-and-playing a build template was too much. VS4life
Hopefully poe 2 simplifies some of those things without gutting the magic.
In my youth, I spent a lot more time in front of Diablo that I care to admit... the randomness of the labyrinth was a great hook.
Also, that ironing Diablo from the ilustration is absolutely cute.
hello yassine
first, you might like halls of torment, it is vampsurv if vampsurv was based on diablo assets instead of castlevania
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2218750/Halls_of_Torment/
---
second, you are an adult now and i would guess you no longer feel the same kick from 'simulated progression' because you have access to the real thing. your primary objective, as an adult, is deciding how to allocate your 16-18 hours of time per day to maximize ROI (not just financial ROI, but social and personal ROI). whereas kids cannot not buy much progression, if any, when the marginal worth of their hour is near zero
tl;dr
kids: poor in money, rich in time
working adults: 'relatively rich' in money, poor in time
caveat: the failure mode of the ROI maximization worldview is burnout
---
third, there are moments in gaming, you alluded to them yourself, that can only be purchased by the sacrifice of time and effort. in ludology, the study of games, a game is only a game in so far as it has artificial costs/constraints the player chooses to bear, like a soccer player getting the ball into the net without his hands. this is one reason why vampsurv will likely never imprint on you lifelong memories the way diablo did. its design shaved away many of the transcendental qualities of play in order to create a pure dopamine delivery device, like a one button slot machine. of course, there is always the question of ROI, some grinds, no matter how immersive, are not 'worth it' in retrospect. eg, no amount of time-optimized gaming is worth a day of play with your child.
100 hours in vampsurv btw
45 hours in Halls of Torment. The same in Boneraiser Minions as well.
And yeah, adult time constraint is the unavoidable reality.
I would highly recommend Halls of Torment, in that it takes the gloriously simplified Vampire Survivors approach but just slightly recomplicates it while providing an aesthetic that feels more like Diablo in some respects than Diablo itself.
45 hours in Halls of Torment already 😎
I often wonder how I ever managed to get laid
Not a gamer, but I have thought similar things regarding movies.
The superhero and the supervillain fight it out in Downtown Arkham or whatever, and there is an awful lot of collateral damage.
A nice thing about Diablo and similar games is that your enemies get utterly vaporized by the thousands but the beautiful vistas and atmospheric environments remain completely untouched. Minus some exploded crates and jars.
Oh, that left-or-right-game already exists. It's called One Finger Death Punch. And it's actually great fun. https://store.steampowered.com/app/264200/One_Finger_Death_Punch/